Magic Errata

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Magic Errata

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:51 pm

Two problems regarding magic have recently come to my attention. They both concern Magnitude 1 powers.

The first one is a mere typo (an overleft from an earlier draft of the rule) in the description of the Nature's Seduction of Nymphs. The duration should be equal to the Nymph's Odylic Charm and not to the sum of her Odylic Charm and her level. I intend to correct this in a few weeks.

The second problem is more like a genuine glitch - the Confusion power of Sorcerers is just too powerful (especially when compared with other magnitude 1 powers, such as the aforementioned Nature's Seduction). Why ? Because the Sorcerer doesn't have to spend multiple Power points to affect several beings at once (so three or four beings could easily be affected by a novice Sorcerer with the mere expenditure of 1 Power point) AND because its effects last for (Psychic Gift) rounds... and these effects are very powerful (saving rolls automatically fail AND the affected beings cannot attack, even if they are attacked themselves - compare this with the effects of Nature's Seduction). So this must definitely be fixed. I've thought about two possible ways to mend this and would like to have all you Minotaurians' thoughts about this.

Possibility n°1
The power still operates for several rounds but the Sorcerer must spend 1 Power point for each intended victim, up to his Psychic Gift. This seems justified since the Sorcerer does mess up with each victim's mind... but one could argue that this is already reflected by each victim getting a Mystic Fortitude saving roll (but then why should Nymphs spend multiple Power points to charm multiple beings ?).

Possibility n°2
The power still costs 1 Power point and may affect several beings at the same time (up to the Sorcerer's Psychic Gift) but its effects last only one battle round (but remember that affected victims will be unable to attack or save against magic).

Possibility n°3
This is the super-drastic version, which combine the two previous ones : 1 Power point per intended target AND duration of only 1 round.

Currently, I'd be in favor of Possibility n°3 but perhaps it's TOO drastic (but keep in mind it's only a Magnitude 1 Power, and even in this reduced version, it can still be used to render a Large or even Gigantic creature virtually powerless for an entire round, for a single Power point).

What do YOU think ?

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:54 pm

I forgot...

Also keep in mind that magical powers which do direct damage cost 4 or 5 power points and can only affect a single target... so I think it does make sense to really tone down this Magnitude 1 power.

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  hoplitenomad on Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:03 pm

Hello Olivier,

I just wanted to make a quick language correction. It's leftover vs overleft.

I like option number one.

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  gebeji on Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:13 pm

After checking the magnitude 1 powers of every magic-users, i think it could be toned down by :

1) stating that the roll to resist is also made each round the target is attacked;
2) removing the added bonus of Danger Evasion and Mystic Fortitude automatic failures (being considered Surprised each round is enough) and,
3) charging an extra Power Point per target above the first.

Let's call this Possibility no 4 Wink

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  Admin on Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:34 pm

Well, great minds think (more or less) alike... Rolling Eyes After a few hours of brainstorm, I've realized that the automatic failure on Mystic Fortitude rolls was a "logical loop" (eg I cast Confusion so the target cannot resist... and I cast Confusion again before the spell wears off, and so on, resulting in perpetual Confusion as long as I can fuel the spell with power, which is obviously wrong).

Here is "Possibility n°5", the result of the aforementioned hours of rumination.

- Lasts only one round
- 1 Power point per target up to (Psychic Gift)
- Target is surprised and fails all Danger Evasion rolls - but not Mystic Fortitude ones (ie its Confusion makes it unattentive to its surroundings but any mental/spiritual attack acts as some kind of "psychic alert", thereby triggering (and justifying) the Mystic Fortitude roll

So, if I want to MAINTAIN a target (or several targets) in a state of Confusion for several rounds, I can... but this will require Power expenditure each round and victims will be allowed a new Mystic Fortitude saving roll every time. This avoids the "perpetual Confusion" loop mentioned above.

This is seriously toned down, but remember that Confusion/surprise makes you unable to attack, which is already a very powerful effect.

I think this works quite well.

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  gebeji on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:45 am

Mmm, i'm not entirely convinced by this new possibility Neutral

It seems to me that 1 round only isn't much, considering other powers (granted with lesser effets), like Hands of Stone, last longer then a mere round. This also means that the sorcerer must cast the spell again and again, thereby depleting his power reserve rapidly, especially if he must use it against a number of targets. Maybe the duration could be Psychic Gift rnds - 1 rnd per extra target after the first, 1 rnd minimum ?

As for the Danger Evasion failures, i didn't kept it mainly because Hands of Stone (again Wink) already did it, but i can agree that it feels "logical" to include it, but IMHO is not necessary considering the surprise effect.

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Re: Magic Errata

Post  Admin on Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:27 pm

gebeji wrote:Mmm, i'm not entirely convinced by this new possibility Neutral

It seems to me that 1 round only isn't much, considering other powers (granted with lesser effets), like Hands of Stone, last longer then a mere round. This also means that the sorcerer must cast the spell again and again, thereby depleting his power reserve rapidly, especially if he must use it against a number of targets. Maybe the duration could be Psychic Gift rnds - 1 rnd per extra target after the first, 1 rnd minimum ?

As for the Danger Evasion failures, i didn't kept it mainly because Hands of Stone (again Wink) already did it, but i can agree that it feels "logical" to include it, but IMHO is not necessary considering the surprise effect.

Well, we got to keep in mind that the effects of surprise (no possibility of attacking etc) are pretty drastic and even very, very lethal if maintained for, say, 6 or 7 rounds. That being said, after ruminating over the matter myself, I tend to (more or less) agree with you; the current version is too powerful... but the one I suggested is perhaps a bit too toned-down. So I've thought about the following adjustment :

We keep the new rules on mutiple targets (ie you need to spend extra Power, up to a maximum of targets equal to Psychic Gift) but we go back for a basic duration of (Psychic Gift) battle rounds... but (wait for it) the victim automatically snaps out of its state of Confusion as soon as it loses Hits or it succeeds at a Danger Evasion or Mystic Fortitude roll because of some other effect (more on saving rolls below). Thus, this power can be used to favor ambushes but not extended slaughter of defenseless opponents, since the first attack automatically "snaps" the creature out of its state of confusion. That being said, it can be a great tool for attacking several creatures single-handed (eg I attack Lycan n°1 and wounds him, so he's no longer Confused but Lycan n°2 still is and won't attack me until I hit him first).

So what about saving rolls ? Well, going for an automatic failure seems a bit drastic but the idea that Confusion should affect Danger Evasion and Mystic Fortitude rolls does make sense... so instead of automatic failure, I think that a -4 penalty should work better. Thus, Confused beings will be less likely to avoid unexpected dangers, resist against hostile spells (which includes Illusions and other Sorcery spells - and again I find this perfectly logical that Confused beings should be more vulnerable to such things) or simply detect sneaking adventurers... but they will come back to their senses as soon as reality hits them. If I target a Confused being with a Psychic Attack, for instance, my victim will automatically snap out of its Confusion (if it is still standing); if the victim succeeds at its Mystic Fortitude saving roll (at -4), this success will also allow it to get back to its senses... but if the saving roll fails, the being will take damage and this will have the same "wake up" effect.

So, to sum up, things would stay the same as in the current rule except that multiple targets would cost multiple Power points AND the Danger Evasion & Mystic Fortitude rolls would be at -4 (rather than automatically failed).

I think this version has many things in its favor :

- It does make the power less powerful and, above all, less prone to rule abuse
- It does not reduce its usefulness (as opposed to its "powerfulness") and versatility
- It does give the poor victims a fighting chance
- It works well in conjunction with other Sorcery powers, without overlapping on them
- The changes it brings to the rules as they now stand are closer to an errata/clarification than to a complete rewrite

I think we've got it. And you ?



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Re: Magic Errata

Post  gebeji on Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:18 pm

Yes, i like it Very Happy

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Re: Magic Errata

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